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Poll: How Deep Into the Post-Season Will The Hawks Go? (28 votes)

How deep will the Blackhawks go in the playoffs?

  1. Conference Quarter-Finalist (6 votes [21.43%])

    Percentage of vote: 21.43%

  2. Conference Semi-Finalist (7 votes [25.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 25.00%

  3. Conference Finalist (7 votes [25.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 25.00%

  4. Stanley Cup Finalist (1 votes [3.57%])

    Percentage of vote: 3.57%

  5. Stanley Cup Winner (7 votes [25.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 25.00%

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How simplicity could help the Chicago Blackhawks

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Simplified approaches lead to balanced efforts by the Hawks. We saw what it can do in the win column only a few games ago, and then we saw how it can destroy the Hawks in the last 2.

A common complaint amongst the Hawks blogosphere and media alike has been the inconsistent efforts of the Chicago Blackhawks. Scoring 6 goals one game, and getting shut-out the next, Defense was seemingly non-existent with offensive onslaughts the only noticeable solution deployed by the talent heavy roster. A recipe for disaster, It was only a matter of time until this type of strategy would spell out disaster. Getting blown out by lesser capable teams and a sudden drop in point production soon did come, and the critics did yell.

Jump to today, where the Hawks had put together a decent stretch of hockey by any measure, and again found themselves at the top looking down, however slight that vantage point was. Then, to only fall about as far in 2 games that had none of what I am about to talk about. But, points are not the only reason the critics are finally getting excited (by critics, I mean myself, I speak for no one else). And, as a teacher, my questionable mind leads to ask why?

Simple, the Blackhawks are either playing a balanced game that takes into account their defensive needs, or they are not. The difference is 2 points. The offense had started to look like they know where to be in the defensive zone and have started showing a desire to even be there. This improved on a breakout that was so reliant on long stretch passes and individual speed, while also dramatically lowering the goals against count racked up in contests until this point. Sure, the Hawks can score goals, but they are also pretty darn good at getting scored on. Goaltenders have some of the responsibility on their performances, but the bulk does not rest on their shoulders. And yet, I call for Emery's start as the #1 goaltender after the break, unless a trade changes something.

A key ingredient in the recipe for success can be found in the most simple of places. With Patrick Sharp sidelined for a decent amount of time, the administration turned to new and untested prospects. These players brought a simple, driven, and cohesive approach to an otherwise chaotic Hawks system. There is no magic here. If you are where you are supposed to be (playing positioned hockey) and do your best to win the one-on-one battles, good things will happen.

In what can only be a miracle sent down by the gods of hockey, Coach Q started doing maybe my single largest request of him throughout his tenure with the Hawks. He started rolling a full 4 lines, cutting down on the “core players” ice-time, and limiting the pressures of certain individuals. Rather, he realized that he has a full team to work with, and this paid out in unquestionable positive results. Fresh legs, a team full of secondary scoring, and better support had finally allowed the Hawks the ability to fix those little things that could kill.

But was it too late? Maybe having already been stretched too far, Jonathan Toews suffered an injury (something I think we all saw coming given his previous minutes on the ice). This pretty much caused a collapse of everything gained in the few games prior. It served to better highlight the captain's importance, and also provided more reasons to question the coaching impact on this team. Is it Toews or Q who controls the troops?

A simplified approach had calmed this team down, and allowed them to play hockey. Players in the right positions, support from the offense in the defensive zone had helped the Hawks keep chances against down, and even gave an extra boost to the breakout. Lowering players ice-time, such as Leddy and Hjalmer allowed them to settle down and repair their overall games. But as soon as it came, it was gone, and then the Hawks were beat by the team who wrote the book on simple hockey.

Deciding on the 6th Defenseman as opposed to rolling 3 different players in and out had finally brought balance to the force as well. Defensive breakdowns a game later has a guy like me seriously considering the need for a new top 4 man, with O'Donnell getting the boot. But are trades the answer?

It seemed as though all of this had also helped Q, and his management team see the rewards of consistent line-combos. Players were beginning to react without having to over think their next move, or wonder if their support would be there. This helped smoother passes along, better back-checking, and even a better offensive production, from a healthier spread of names on the roster.

However, Toews was still leading the charge and doing his thing, as were other juggernauts on the team, but there was less of a reliance on these “core” players. The team had seemingly become balanced overnight, thanks to a few young newcomers. Balance will only make for a tougher team to play against. I believed that the Hawks had finally become that team 2 games ago, that would represent the toughest contender to beat in the playoffs, or at least were on that path. It all started with simplification. And then, it all ended with simplification as the Preds taught the Hawks a lesson in it, and Trotz showed Q how to get the most out of his roster at hand.

What I can say has stuck a bit is the power-play results. The Hawks actually look semi productive on the man-advantage lately. In what might be the largest example of things just mentioned in this post, the Hawks found goals by making the simple play and not over thinking it.

This post obviously ignores all of the issues regarding trades, and the rumors thereof, but I felt like it needed to be said. I am no stranger to the criticisms of coach Q, and I do think a change in leadership could lead to better results and surely more cohesive ones, but I also see the Hawks playing better when everything is more balanced on the ice, and roles simply defined. Will new faces help that along?

YOUR CALL


R K
Jan 27 2012 02:35 AM
Not to mention 5 rookies in the line up. Or musical lines missing two key cogs AND having five rookies in the line up.

Sorry but that's just reading way to much into it. They are NOT looking that far up and I'm not sure how many MORE points they should have to be looking down.

If they were looking down they'd clearly be the best team in the league. Right now 3pts from the top. Kind of difficult when you play in the best, most competative division in hockey and have your last two games against clearly the hottest team in the NHL, missing two allstars and again having 5 rookies in the in the line up. They were not scoring 6 goals against the Preds, and especially without two of the teams best goal scorers. That team is built not to give up more than 2 per game.

12-6-2 in their last 20 games. So "simplicity" makes that record better? Or just smarter team defense. I'm going with the smarter team defense, and that is NOT a poor record by any means.

As for Trotz teaching Q, I am not Q's biggest fan by any means but thats a crock of shit. Trotz has a healthy team, rolling. Guess, what, they rolled over a depleated team. Game 1, a gassed team and game two one missing TWO of four Centers!

the canadian dream
Jan 27 2012 02:50 AM
Trotz couldn't coach the Hawks and the style of players on the Hawks roster. Preds are built for the style they play and the style Trotz coaches and it helps when you have the best goalie in the world being the last stop of a highly defensive system.

Hawks don't need simplicity. They need to keep playing their style and their game with a heatlhy roster. I would pick a healthy Hawks team to go further than a healthy Preds team any day of the week when it matters most. Preds will never be a team that goes further than the 2nd round in the playoffs. Hawks have been further than that 2 times in the last 3 years playing the same style they are playing now. Don't change a fucking thing about the system..just add a piece on the blueline to correct some defensive slumps and to help out the average to bellow average goalkeeping.

Trotz is a great coach though there is no doubts about it. But he's not working alone with that team. You take Rhinne out of that system and they are bottom feeders. When they lose one of Suter or Weber we will also see a different Preds team. Bank on it.

howcho
Jan 27 2012 04:40 AM
err, Suter was out the first game.

the canadian dream
Jan 27 2012 04:58 AM
Quiet you!!!

I ment season lol. And how that will effect their seasonal record.

Preds give every team a tough time it's that god damn defense they play and that freaking goalie. Boring as hell but effective. We couldn't do that here with the players we have. Even if Trots was the coach. And why would you want it? It's not a system that is going to win cups anymore. It will get teams into the playoffs but it won't sustain itself through the playoffs.

PuckPowWow
Jan 27 2012 05:18 AM
Thanks howcho. Actually the Preds were without Suter and Bouillion in the first game, and the Preds had played a game the night before the 2nd one, still without Bouillon.

I guess thats the question R K, does a coach react to his team, or make his team react to him? Either way, can't say Q is doing such a great job.

And part of playing better defense is having a more simple approach to their game. The Hawks try to do too much, too often and get themselves into trouble. They lose a great many games because they don't win the one-on-one battles.

Those 5 rookies in the line-up (and this is going to sound really harsh, sorry) have done more scoring than a few other players I could mention, which helped put together a pretty nice little winning streak.

Im not over-reacting, just stating the obvious really. The Hawks are in 6th, no matter how you roll it, there are some holes in their game. I only offer some critiques on the matter. I am not freaking out or anything. they will most likely turn it around, but only with a healthy Toews.

What I really don't like seeing is the talk about moving Stalberg when he is one of the only players excelling above expectations on the team.

From what I have seen of the Hawks and other teams, I don't really see them beating any of their division counterparts in a playoff series right now. Maybe the Wings since their styles are more closely related and the Hawks have more guns. In the Eastern, I can't see them standing a chance against Boston, or a few others. Maybe a trade fixes everything like magic, but it would be nice to see the Hawks finally find some cohesion to their system of play.

the canadian dream
Jan 27 2012 05:41 AM
powow

The Hawks have injuries to key players right now. No shit they wouldn't beat any of their divisional counterparts if they faced them right now. Good thing the playoffs are a couple months away.

Yikes we are talking about a team that was 1st in the league a couple weeks ago. In the league!!! Not sure what the point of all this "the hawks need to change their style" stuff is comming from. Really it makes no sense. You quiz anyone on who the favorites are to win the cup this year you will hear the Hawks come up more often than not. This is a long season in sports. No team is going to play lights out hockey every game of the season and some are even going to go on losing streaks and lose to teams that on paper they should be beating easy. Hell the Wings got stomped by the Habs the other night. Guess the Wings should change their system now?

The Hawks system is fine. It is a system that won us a cup, took us to the conference finals the year before and was an inch away of rewriting the history books last season in the first round (a round they had no rights pushing to 7 games based on the roster, the burn out and the injuries going into an early playoff round). This is a club 80% of NHL fans would love their teams to be.

We need an extra body on the blueline to correct defensive mistakes we don't need an overhaul of the system and a new coach. This is ludacris!!! The doom and gloom shit has to end..the Hawks are fine. They have some important bodies on the sidelines but they are fine. This is turning into a discussion fans for teams like Columbus and Anaheim should be having. Not the Hawks fan base.

Also if you want a more defensive based system then you are going to have to sacrifice some offense to get it. Are you ready for that? Or are you just going to turn around when that happens and bitch about how the Hawks need to adjust their offense? It's a catch 22. Could the Hawks use a bit more focus on defense? Sure..and that can be solved easily by a simple trade if it becomes available. It could also help if our goalkeeping can step it up a notch. I still think Craw can regain the form he had last year and can be the goalie he was in the 1st round last year..he was amazing...least we forget that. This is still a team built for playoff hockey also.

Let's wait and see how this team looks when Sharp and Toews both return with the added additions of Hayes and Shaw. Could be a team that competes with the talent and character levels that the cup winning team had (minus the Brian Campbell which to date is still this teams biggest loss and unreplaceable body). Yah I said it.....and I mean it. And I am one that thinks that cup winning team was one of the best built NHL teams of all time.

Ton
Jan 27 2012 05:59 AM
I don't buy the whole injury excuse as a way to let Q off the hook... Look at Dan Bylsma in Pittsburgh and what he can do with his stars out.

That said, not many coaches can do that. Here's the problem I see with Q when things go wrong: Instead of sticking with simple/basic hockey, he blows everything up and hits the panic button. That's not something the guys in the locker room need, if anything they need stability. The team reacts as the coach does, just look at AV and the Canucks. AV is a douchebag so the team follows. Q is a great guy and can do some great things at times, but producing with a depleted team is not one of them and when he hits the panic button so does the team.

If this team is healthy they will go far, if not, I don't have confidence in Q to help the boys right the ship.

the canadian dream
Jan 27 2012 06:22 AM
There is too much criticism on Q sometimes. It's not as if he hasn't done good things at times for this club. Not every player on a team is going to react well to the coach all of the time. Toews game doesn't seem to suffer with Q behind the bench. He's posting career numbers last time I checked. Stalberg seems to be reacting well. Sharp typically does as does Hossa. I don't know how our bluelners react anymore though..I know when Q first got here they reacted great. I know Q plays positional games with Kane and I too think it hurts him in the long run. But what also comes with that is a coach showing Kane so much confidence. That's not a bad thing. I don't think Q panics as much as half the fans do what I do think Q shows is confidence in his players more often than not and that is why he feels he can mix lines up (not syaing it's right or wrong). And I agree with the assesment of AV in Vancouver but look at who is wearing the C there also. A diver and a whinner. Not the greatest team leadership with the Canucks either..well not proper team leadership. And another thing about AV....as opposed to a guy like Q... A.V. doesn't mix his lines up enough. You need to be able to mix your lines up and change things up sometimes. Some coaches do it too much..some don't do it enough. It's tricky. It's a difficult part of coaching.

I think there is way too much focus on the negatives and not enough on the positives Q brings to the team. This is what fans do too much of. Gloss over the positives and nail the negatives because it's a funner conversation.

One great thing Q has been able to do is keep these players ego in check and has been able to control what they say to the media. I think that's huge myself. I think it's all about focus and I think Q can get great focus out of his players and always has been able to. Without focus you don't have anything. I certainly don't think Q is loosing his players in that sense and I think that is the key make up of a good coach. AV is a perfect example of a guy that allows his players to lose focus and that's the real difference btw the 2 as a cup winning coach and one who is not and who will never be.

The coach like no time before in hockey history has become the easy scape goat when things aren't going right. I have never seen anything like it before and it's reflected in how many coaches are being fired this season. It's starting to trickle down into the fan base mentality now also (and i am not only talking about our own here). And make no qualms about it I can be critical about some of Q's decisions also but I am trying to remember the good he has done with this club

Pens are an anomoly. For every team that has key injuries yet can still produce there are 3 teams with key injuries that can not. And I have mentioned this before. Fluery has been the main reason why the Pens have been able to win through their injuries this season. We haven't recieved that consistant game winning goalkeeping here. And I don't even like Fluery but you gotta throw out props when they are deserved. Besides the Pens have a pretty good seasoned team even with their injuries and aren't forced to play a whole lot of 2nd year guys or rookies. It has been amazing what they have done when major injuries have hit but that's a rare scenerio like you said Ton. And again...it's the East. I really don't think the East is very strong outside 4 or 5 teams. Not sure if the same can be said about the West.

PSR
Jan 27 2012 06:58 AM
God I wanted to read through this thread but all you assholes think I'm prepared to read your latest novel......sum it up!!!!!!!

Shoots_he_scores
Jan 27 2012 07:47 AM
170-88-34, an average of 104 points per season behind the bench of the hawks taking 64 percent of available points in games he's coached since taking over. He's got a 28-18 record in the postseason, two trips to the conference finals in 3 years, and a Stanley Cup.

That's all I need to know about Q, and all I really give a shit about. Team wins = I'm happy, don't give a shit what the lines or lineup look like. There's 3 coaches in this league I'd take over him, Babcock, Trotz, and Bylsma. That's pretty elite company.

the canadian dream
Jan 27 2012 07:58 AM

View PostShoots_he_scores, on 27 January 2012 - 07:47 AM, said:

170-88-34, an average of 104 points per season behind the bench of the hawks taking 64 percent of available points in games he's coached since taking over. He's got a 28-18 record in the postseason, two trips to the conference finals in 3 years, and a Stanley Cup.

That's all I need to know about Q, and all I really give a shit about. Team wins = I'm happy, don't give a shit what the lines or lineup look like. There's 3 coaches in this league I'd take over him, Babcock, Trotz, and Bylsma. That's pretty elite company.

Pretty much how I feel.

Until Q puts in losing seasons and really starts losing his players (which he has not accept in the minds of some fans) there is no reason to even think about a coaching change or to point fingers at our coaching. Those are some amazing stats for a coach. Has coaching a very talented team helped? Of course it has. Have coaches in the past failed miserably with talented teams? YES!!! Nothing Q has done to this point behind the bench can be seen as a failure in my opinion. Nothing.

Our GM has given Q a lot to work with but has also left him holes to work with. Q has done a good job with what he has. The line mixing can be frustrating..god knows I could use some STK line more often, would like to see Bolland get a longer boute at the #2 center slot, and would like the defensive pairings consistant more often than not... but at the same time I understand what Q is trying to do with balancing. It's not a crazy idea. Had this team had more center depth kane would never had been used there. If this club had more LW depth strange line combos would be down less.

Ton
Jan 27 2012 09:21 AM
Yes he has had success, but not many coaches have the opportunity to coach Patrick Kane, Patrick Sharp, Jonathan Toews, Marian Hossa, Brent Seabrook and Duncan Keith all on the same team. He has good company.

I'd like to see his record when there is injuries.

I can't disagree though TCD, Bowman left him with a few holes, specifically lacking a top-six forward and another top-four defenseman. I think Bowman knew of the holes at the beginning of the season and opted not to sign someone because he was confident that they would have the cap space to make a deal at the deadline... hindsight is 20/20 though, and if he had known that there would be limited options I bet he would have done this differently.

Like I said, I think with a healthy team the Hawks are pretty much an offensive juggernaut that could handle most teams. I think throughout the year we saw them "flip the switch" that we also saw in 2010, the key is they need to be healthy. The only time I would think they need to simplify things is when they are being too cute, the puck isn't bouncing their way, or injuries occur. Otherwise I have no problem with the style Q tries to play.

Grimson
Jan 27 2012 01:33 PM

View PostPSR, on 27 January 2012 - 06:58 AM, said:

God I wanted to read through this thread but all you assholes think I'm prepared to read your latest novel......sum it up!!!!!!!

"Simplicity could help the Hawks"

R K
Jan 27 2012 02:59 PM

View PostGrimson, on 27 January 2012 - 01:33 PM, said:

"Simplicity could help the Hawks"

I see what you did there and I didn't have to read Laviathan to understand it! Well played.

Again I'm not a huge "Q" fan but that said they play 82 games for a reason. My argument of where this team "should be" still stands. Should they be 10pts ahead of EVERY team in the NHL? They are THREE points back from having the best record? Is that under achievement? Really? Maybe one should look at the same point last year and remind me where they were.

Anyone who didn't expect Nashville to roll the Hawks Saturday night please stand up. Tuesday was a much more competative game, and the Hawks were missing ANOTHER key player, and added TWO more rookies to the line up. Hard to win when you don't have four lines, with at least FOUR competent Centers. That's not Q's fault.

Maybe had the Hawks flown off to Winnipeg after that CRAZY fucked up night they would have won the game? Instead they flew off to the hottest team in the league, who were sitting there waiting for them. With a slightly injured Center who didn't even play half the game.

And Powwow you are not stating the obvious, at least to me. It sounds bandwagonish. Sorry.

acco-redtribe
Jan 27 2012 03:30 PM
You guys all make valid points, I agree with Ton on the Health issue.But I gatta say one thing stands from this team and the Cup winning team regarding health.2009- 2010 we had the players to keep rolling even with an injury or two. This year not so much, Hopefully we land the right guys to get the work done.....watched the Allstar draft.....LOLOL loved how Chara did not pick a single Nuck.

BlackhawkPaul
Jan 27 2012 04:10 PM
The question that can be asked as well can be what does losing a captain do to a team?
How has Toews absence affected team play? Do you compare Lidstrom missing the Montreal game as an example? Detroit got destroyed. Probably one of the worst performances from that team all year. Is it that simple? There are other leaders in the locker room, but when a core piece is out such as 19, how do players feel about it?
The retort has been stated that the team has been shut out quite a few times, the one that stands out most was in Carolina.

I still stand by the rhetoric of it's an 82 game marathon. Just got to get one of the top 8. The worries aren't apparent as they were last season in which you had your team-- they were at the cap limit, and that was it.
All of us get to sit back and see what move(s) are made at the deadline.

LordKOTL
Jan 27 2012 04:16 PM
While Sharp out and Toews out do hurt the D, they're not the issue. IMHO the pressing team issue right now is Leddy and Hammer not been able to hold their own line consistantly (they seem to be bad 50% of the time, or worse). That really has to change especially with the ice time Leddy is getting. Not all of that can be blamed on Dr. Craw.

IMHO while some simplicity in the back end is needed, I think right now maybe going back to Keith/Leddy and Seabrook/Hammer might not be a bad idea (although I'd prefer Keith/Hammer and Seabrook/Leddy, but handedness might be an issue). It might calm thingsa down back there.

PuckPowWow
Jan 27 2012 04:42 PM
The concern is the lack of a system. the Hawks won the cup because their roster was overflowing, not because of coaching and not because of anything even resembling a team system of play. They had way too much talent to lose, and no coach could lose with that talent. The following year is a great example.

And still, with that talent, they almost lost the first round to the Predators. In fact, you could call what happened in game 5 as a miracle, when Kaner scored that shorty to extend overtime. Lack of a system the reason.

Cut to this year where yes, they are still standng pretty large, and are out their best players at the moment. But, I am not only commenting on the last 2 games, in fact I wrote the bulk of this before those games.

The fact is, the Hawks have barely squeezed out a great too many wins in the 3rd period from an onslaught created from a very talent filled offense. There are way too many games that they have won, when they really did not deserve the win, and then another good handful of games where they were completely blown out by far lesser teams.

With the talent on this squad, this year has not been too pleasant to the eyes of this fan, who looks at every detail, not the score, and not the points accumulated. The fact is, when the Hawks play simple and balanced, they look stronger. Yes, I look in Q's direction for some of the blame.

PuckPowWow
Jan 27 2012 04:52 PM
Just got through some of the longer responses that focus on Q. I will present my argument as to why I am not a fan of his in another article.

But, I can tell you now that points and win percentage are related to the skill that he has had the luck of coaching, not so much his choices behind the bench.

Also, I think many might be misreading my thoughts (which is my fault). I am positive about the Hawks. There is nothing I enjoy more. I didn't really take this post as negative, but actually positive. I was trying to point what helps them win games.

I think Q is a good figure head, but it mostly ends there for me. I will tell you why soon.

BlackhawkPaul
Jan 27 2012 04:52 PM
If you go back to game 4 of the SCF, Q made some significant changes near the end of that game-- he shook up the lines and split up 88 and 19. It forced the Flyers to pick which line to ice their top line against. It proved beneficial. The Hawks were outplayed all game until the early 3rd and then made it a game.
Fast forward to game 5. Pronger melts down, hawks net 7.
Yes, the team was amazingly deep that SC year. To say anyone could have coached them to a cup is silly.
I'm not going to give Q a complete pass because he had some monsters in St. Louis (one of the best blue lines ever in Macinnis and Pronger) that had the ability to bring home a cup, yet he only got to one WCF.

klemmer
Jan 27 2012 05:21 PM

View Postthe canadian dream, on 27 January 2012 - 07:58 AM, said:

Pretty much how I feel.

Until Q puts in losing seasons and really starts losing his players (which he has not accept in the minds of some fans) there is no reason to even think about a coaching change or to point fingers at our coaching. Those are some amazing stats for a coach. Has coaching a very talented team helped? Of course it has. Have coaches in the past failed miserably with talented teams? YES!!! Nothing Q has done to this point behind the bench can be seen as a failure in my opinion. Nothing.

Our GM Dale Tallon has given Q a lot to work with but has also left him holes to work with. Q has done a good job with what he has. The line mixing can be frustrating..god knows I could use some STK line more often, would like to see Bolland get a longer boute at the #2 center slot, and would like the defensive pairings consistant more often than not... but at the same time I understand what Q is trying to do with balancing. It's not a crazy idea. Had this team had more center depth kane would never had been used there. If this club had more LW depth strange line combos would be down less.

Get it right,

R K
Jan 27 2012 05:27 PM

View PostLordKOTL, on 27 January 2012 - 04:16 PM, said:

While Sharp out and Toews out do hurt the D, they're not the issue. IMHO the pressing team issue right now is Leddy and Hammer not been able to hold their own line consistantly (they seem to be bad 50% of the time, or worse). That really has to change especially with the ice time Leddy is getting. Not all of that can be blamed on Dr. Craw.

IMHO while some simplicity in the back end is needed, I think right now maybe going back to Keith/Leddy and Seabrook/Hammer might not be a bad idea (although I'd prefer Keith/Hammer and Seabrook/Leddy, but handedness might be an issue). It might calm thingsa down back there.

Alot of the time it's not neccessarily the D, it's the "team defense". Yes they are two different things.

Seabrook has probably been this teams most consistant D man all year. I don't think there's a question. Keith started out shakey but when Q finally put them back together he strangely started to get back to the "old" keith. Montedor was out for several games, that meant they must give Leddy more minutes. I'm not sure who remembers what Keith looked like in his 2nd year, but Leddy's game, with that many minutes, is very similar.

I would go on a limb and say it's more team defense like TJD has suggested many times, more so than the specific Defense. Now on some nights sure, it's clearly defense, but that works on the offensive side too, in those few games they don't score.

They win and lose as a team.

I think alot of us have questioned Q from time to time. He was on some EXTREMELY stacked teams and never won anything, but you know what, he gets the benefit of the doubt until he has a losing season here.

They win games when they play as a team. When they don't they don't. Is that coaching, or individual players? What other circumstances fit in? It's not all black and white. There is no ONE answer.

Again I go back to how good do you think this team should be? Should they be 10 points ahead of the pack? Ahead of the other Elite teams in the league? No, they are right where they should be. Within GAMES of all the other Elite teams.

6th place my ass. It says fucking nothing when you are talking about 1-2-3 points. It says the Western Conference Elite teams are damn good is what is says.

R K
Jan 27 2012 05:33 PM

View PostBlackhawkPaul, on 27 January 2012 - 04:52 PM, said:

If you go back to game 4 of the SCF, Q made some significant changes near the end of that game-- he shook up the lines and split up 88 and 19. It forced the Flyers to pick which line to ice their top line against. It proved beneficial. The Hawks were outplayed all game until the early 3rd and then made it a game.
Fast forward to game 5. Pronger melts down, hawks net 7.
Yes, the team was amazingly deep that SC year. To say anyone could have coached them to a cup is silly.
I'm not going to give Q a complete pass because he had some monsters in St. Louis (one of the best blue lines ever in Macinnis and Pronger) that had the ability to bring home a cup, yet he only got to one WCF.
I agree and disagree with this. Q had a guy named Scotty Bowman ringing in his ear. Those changes came directly from SB, no question. That said one of my big beefs with Q is that he coaches a style that doesn't allow for suggestions. It's a "My way or the highway" type mentality.

Thank god Bowman "suggested" some things and Q reacted as who knows what happens if they don't mix it up there.

It's why I have to laugh when someone throws out Kitchen or Havi under the bus for the PP or PK. When they do that you can tell they truely don't understand how Q coaches.

R K
Jan 27 2012 05:34 PM

View Postklemmer, on 27 January 2012 - 05:21 PM, said:

Get it right,

I think we are almost to the point where you have to start working Stan in there. There are enough players not Tallons now that they win and lose on those compliments, which are surrounding the core. If this makes sense.

MassHavoc
Jan 27 2012 05:47 PM
Seems we can have threads without insults and cockheadedness...

BlackhawkPaul
Jan 27 2012 05:48 PM

View PostMassHavoc, on 27 January 2012 - 05:47 PM, said:

Seems we can have threads without insults and cockheadedness...
Seems like inanity is still here though.














:occasion-snowman:

LordKOTL
Jan 27 2012 06:20 PM

View PostR K, on 27 January 2012 - 05:27 PM, said:

Alot of the time it's not neccessarily the D, it's the "team defense". Yes they are two different things.

Seabrook has probably been this teams most consistant D man all year. I don't think there's a question. Keith started out shakey but when Q finally put them back together he strangely started to get back to the "old" keith. Montedor was out for several games, that meant they must give Leddy more minutes. I'm not sure who remembers what Keith looked like in his 2nd year, but Leddy's game, with that many minutes, is very similar.

I would go on a limb and say it's more team defense like TJD has suggested many times, more so than the specific Defense. Now on some nights sure, it's clearly defense, but that works on the offensive side too, in those few games they don't score.

They win and lose as a team.

I think alot of us have questioned Q from time to time. He was on some EXTREMELY stacked teams and never won anything, but you know what, he gets the benefit of the doubt until he has a losing season here.

They win games when they play as a team. When they don't they don't. Is that coaching, or individual players? What other circumstances fit in? It's not all black and white. There is no ONE answer.

Again I go back to how good do you think this team should be? Should they be 10 points ahead of the pack? Ahead of the other Elite teams in the league? No, they are right where they should be. Within GAMES of all the other Elite teams.

6th place my ass. It says fucking nothing when you are talking about 1-2-3 points. It says the Western Conference Elite teams are damn good is what is says.
I agree with just about everything--especially in that it's not just two guys, it's the whole team. However, I've noticed that it seems that Leddy and Hammer seem lost out there more often than not--like they both need someone else to "lead" the pairing. It may benefit the team to put them with a vet presence (at least in key moments) so that some pressure is taken off of Crawford/Emery. And yeah, it doesn't help that we're missing Toews and Sharp.

I'm not giving up the ship in the least, but I think it would be foolish to rigidly "stay the course" without a few adjustments here and there. I think it's not too far out of line to think that an adjustment could be putting Leddy and Hammer part-time with another partner who's been there and done that in key moments.

the canadian dream
Jan 27 2012 07:55 PM
Q also did an amazing job with buff in the cup year. Not only on the ice but off it also. When he didn't allow buff to talk to the media in the canuck series it was mental battle won. Had buff been allowed to yap like he wanted to it could have been a huge negative.

As for that Nashville series. Yah h awks almost lost game 6 and the preds almost forced a game 7. So? Who has said the preds aren't a good team? They also gave the canucks a pretty tough 6 game series last year also and eliminated an offensive giant ducks team. They will give any team They meet this year a tough series also. Its the playoffs...expect the unexpected. that same year the habs went on a tare in the eastern conference playoffs. No one expected that. Shit happens in the Nhl playoffs...there are countless examples. Its why the playoffs are so amazing. If things were always to pan out how the majority predict then why watch a single game?

The argument that the hawks barely got by the preds doesn't hold much water. Even had they gone 7 games who knows what happens. The fact that they won the way they won speaks volumes about that entire season and the character the team had...its still there.

MassHavoc
Jan 27 2012 08:08 PM

View Postthe canadian dream, on 27 January 2012 - 07:55 PM, said:

Q also did an amazing job with buff in the cup year. Not only on the ice but off it also. When he didn't allow buff to talk to the media in the canuck series it was mental battle won. Had buff been allowed to yap like he wanted to it could have been a huge negative.

As for that Nashville series. Yah h awks almost lost game 6 and the preds almost forced a game 7. So? Who has said the preds aren't a good team? They also gave the canucks a pretty tough 6 game series last year also and eliminated an offensive giant ducks team. They will give any team They meet this year a tough series also. Its the playoffs...expect the unexpected. that same year the habs went on a tare in the eastern conference playoffs. No one expected that. Shit happens in the Nhl playoffs...there are countless examples. Its why the playoffs are so amazing. If things were always to pan out how the majority predict then why watch a single game?

The argument that the hawks barely got by the preds doesn't hold much water. Even had they gone 7 games who knows what happens. The fact that they won the way they won speaks volumes about that entire season and the character the team had...its still there.
Thank god it's not the NFL, he would have been fined for that.

R K
Jan 27 2012 08:28 PM

View PostLordKOTL, on 27 January 2012 - 06:20 PM, said:

I agree with just about everything--especially in that it's not just two guys, it's the whole team. However, I've noticed that it seems that Leddy and Hammer seem lost out there more often than not--like they both need someone else to "lead" the pairing. It may benefit the team to put them with a vet presence (at least in key moments) so that some pressure is taken off of Crawford/Emery. And yeah, it doesn't help that we're missing Toews and Sharp.

I'm not giving up the ship in the least, but I think it would be foolish to rigidly "stay the course" without a few adjustments here and there. I think it's not too far out of line to think that an adjustment could be putting Leddy and Hammer part-time with another partner who's been there and done that in key moments.

I agreee, I just think all this "over analyzing" is quite comical from where this team has come. Esepcially from last year to this. My suggestion is to stop with the knee jerk reactions and or arm chair GMing and let them play the 82 games. Teams are going to have bad nights and good nights. Bad stretches and good stretches. Could they have a few more points, sure, but on the fip side they could have a few less as well.

Every GOOD team can say the same thing. If this team played more like "Nashville" I'd NEVER buy a ticket, as they are boring and will NEVER be successful in the playoffs, playing that style. Never. Not enough scoring punch.